V-TWINS Magnetos are always a compromise, usually producing a strong spark to one cylinder and a weaker one to the other. This will not stop the coil from working. demand to 'perfectly functional' or 'as-new' If you need more information, or wish to order by post or pay over the phone, please ring: 01273 913181. She was factory fitted with a Morris Vedette MKII engine which has a lucas rf4 magneto. Magneto coils are usually a long time dying. If the coil has been in service since the magneto was new there is a good chance the insulation has started to break down, allowing voltage to track. The Magneto Guys - Vintage, Veteran, Classic Magneto Repairs Lucas Magnetos We have overhauled and repaired these Lucas magnetos and then returned them to their owners. ring. item. Two beveled teeth on drive gear(which are generally parallel to flat for shaft it fits on) should go to mark on rotor which is under lead out finger. If they look good I would replace the condenser if it has one and retest. Grease. If the pick-up is retained by spring clip, swing it to one side while holding the pick-up in place. capacitance to satisfactory ignition system After 20 miles the ignition is down to zero. [7] Ignition magnetos were largely replaced by ignition coils once batteries became common in cars, since a battery-operated coil can provide a high-voltage spark even at low speeds, making starting easier.[8]. If you are sure that all earth brushes are removed, and if either the magneto has a fibre drive pinion or the drive pinion/sprocket has been removed, you can now check the effectiveness of the bearing insulators. quality are also available, of the correct Magneto parts We also sell our Brightspark range of specially-selected, top-quality, British-made slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH magnetos. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. If an earth brush is fitted behind the back-plate, check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. how they work; and to collate as much other pouvons vous aider soit en franais, soit en I did run the rpm up with my lathe to 1,000 rpm & it easily jumped 5/8", so were good there, SMOKSTAK is a Registered Trade Mark in the U.S. There is no wire hooked up to the cap. The turns ratio between the primary and secondary coil is selected so that the voltage across the secondary reaches a very high value, enough to arc across the gap of the spark plug. Many should appreciate. -- misfiring, particularly at higher revs and fully open throttle, or when opening the throttle. From time to time we have complete %PDF-1.5
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with a fixed register in the cam housing and with the advance/retard actuator). This induces an EMF in the coil, which in turn causes a current to flow. With twin- or multi-cylinder magnetos, and some single-cylinder magnetos, the brass is a segment, rather than a complete ring, and you may need to rotate the armature in order to be able to see it. If your multimeter can measure capacitance, the reading should be within 10% of: 150 nF (0.15 uF) for the C01, C02, C03, C05 and CU/150 EasyCaps; 220 nF (0.22 uF) for the C06, C07 and CU/220 EasyCaps. It should fit properly in only one precise position. -- Tickover, pulling away, and low-speed running erratic. Our Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. replacement for the condenser (capacitor) in Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might or
A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. If it has any unusual marks, try to work out what caused them and whether anything should/could be done about them. As the voltage of the primary winding rises to several hundred volts,[3][4] the voltage on the secondary winding rises to several tens of thousands of volts, since the secondary winding typically has 100 times as many turns as the primary winding.[3]. After a series of checks, I sent it back to the rebuilder. many ignition systems, focusing especially on Magnetic - Check magnetism and Remagnetise magneto body. The original coil may be reusable, although it is susceptible to faults - as described in our section: common problems on magnetos. I have seen that a lot on FM mags. I forgot about this. The impulse coupling uses a spring, a hub cam with flyweights, and a shell. i found that is a cheaper, easier way to go than doing it my self with refurbished parts. If excessively worn, replace the heel (BTH), or the moving-point assembly (Lucas). or
The timing marks should not wander with the RPM of the drill. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. This was diagnosed as the cam ring not being properly timed to the magnetic poles. March 21, 2020 in Technical. If the magnet is full strength and the spark at the points looks right then I would still say you have a coil problem with some shorted turns or something. You can check the latter by removing the pick-up(s), rotating the armature in the proper direction until the points are just opening, and checking that the brass is visible directly underneath the pick-up hole (or one of the pick-up holes) in the magneto body. With the earth brush(es) now replaced, measure the resistance between the back-plate of the contact breaker assembly and the main body of the magneto. magnetos and capacitors (for those who wish to Don't want this buried as I 'm hoping for some possible answers today. I'm working on a Lucas Mag right now for the first time and this is extremely helpful. Take a look at some of the equipment we BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. With the engine running, place your hand over the pick-up with the same hand also touching the magneto body. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the tip of the pick-up brush and the terminal in the plug cap. 0000002567 00000 n
It's easy! I know a great starting engine will fire a plug with 3/16" gap when external of a cylinder. Put 2 hours of flawless time on the bench. 5.5 mm (220 thou) THREE-POINT SPARK GAP. The contact points which are mounted onto the end of the armature shaft, used to time the breaking of the primary winding current, will become pitted and worn, especially so if the capacitor is faulty. If I was working on it, first I would want a 5/16" air gap consistent spark minimum from the coil terminal to ground. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. You are probably loosing amperage through the jumper cables. For example, in the Lucas K1F and K2F, the earth brush is located on top inboard of the main mounting flange. We always replace the capacitor during a repair as experience has show us that the capacitor tends to be the most unreliable part. Trademark Office. IMPORTANT. If the brass is black, it indicates that the brush(es) are too soft and/or years of neglect. Even if the points surfaces look good, clean them with fine emery cloth to remove any oxide layer. Check out our magneto armature winding service. A The coils are, of course, designed for this pressure but no insulation is perfect. Lucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuff. (Chinese) Once When the magneto is supposed to fire, the flyweights are released by the action of the body contacting the trigger ramp. and other magneto parts. troubleshooting your magneto. From the basic to the complex - some 0000003162 00000 n
Your mag likely has a bad condensor. Any suggestions? Mechanical - Bearings, insulation, washers and shimming the armature. Problems rooted in the magneto are sometimes obvious, or can seem like all sorts of other things. I was bench testing by tuning the mag slowly by hand, without the impulse coupling attached, so 1/4" is a good distance. This allows the spring to unwind giving the rotating magnet a rapid rotation and letting the magneto spin at such a speed to produce a spark. The other plug cap should give a reading that is infinite (OL) or extremely high. tour of some of our specialised workshop If the brush is missing or there is only a very short piece in the pick-up, the brush (or part of it) may have come out and dropped to the bottom of the magneto housing. I did notice a very small spark between the contact breaker points. i have had 3 done here by ed strain that included rebuild with remagnatized body for a little more than $200.00. and overhauls. Thanks mmcdonald, all good info. Put a smear of grease on the lobe(s) of the cam. Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. Replace if necessary. that old problem, the deeply-buried condenser startxref
This can mask a fault on these cars as the vehicle will continue to run until the other fails. 82 0 obj<>
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rebuilt amature runs about 85pnds from independent ignition. 0000006861 00000 n
magnetos available for sale or in Ignition - Check Spark strength, Spark timing and . An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). After 1 hour or so the bike can be started again, but the ignition fails again after riding about 20 miles - not a pleasent way to ride! Check the state of the tappet and replace if necessary. Not sure what came off, but 1930s/40s I would have thought.prefer collection, but would post. Once the insulation has been broken down once, it often makes it easier for it to be broken down again. <]>>
The reading should be substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. Norsk Joined: Oct 2009. Now let the slip ring dry out with the pick-ups still removed. Could be bad parts if spark just gets a lot weaker but if spark totally goes away when cap and rotor are installed, be sure the when you install them it does not short out the primary, give the rotor a closer ground to jump to or hold the points open, etc. Nous If not provided with a safety gap, there is a risk of expensive damage. Great photos, quality! We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. [3] The capacitor's function is similar to that of a snubber as found in a flyback converter. I tested the HT wire and spark plug and both are fine. Fit the magneto gear to the magneto shaft and finger tighten the nut ONLY until the gear is snug on the tapered shaft. Initially this was done because it was easier to provide good insulation for the secondary winding of an external coil than it was in a coil buried in the construction of the magneto (early magnetos had the coil assembly externally to the rotating parts to make them easier to insulateat the expense of efficiency). Check the state of the heel of the moving-point assembly. Franaise Deutsch The plugs are non resistor, gaped at -025", and are new. 0000003777 00000 n
Pick-up, HT Lead and Plug-cap 1 However, for magnetos without a safety gap, if the armature is spun with nothing, or with a large gap, connected to the pick-up, it may cause a breakdown of the insulation around the HT winding or of the slip ring. We also have kits for more unusual magnetos, such as the BTH, ML, Magnetos France, Morel, Lucas wader, Lucas KVF, etc., and for cars. A capacitor is placed across the points which absorbs the energy stored in the leakage inductance of the primary coil, and slows the rise time of the primary winding voltage to allow the points to open fully. Because the magneto has low voltage output at low speed, starting an engine is more difficult. 0000007301 00000 n
These were on older equipment which hadcomplete tune upsthat wentto the field and didn't work more than a hand full or two of times and then they would begin to start hard, no start or run for a short time and shut off then not restart. Thoroughly clean the pick-up using a rag moistened with petrol. The air gap allows the voltage to build on the rotor until it is high enough to jump the gap thus it actually magnifies it somewhat. In the Lucas MO1, it is on one side, adjacent the contact-breaker housing. Upgrade your membership to
at some of the equipment we use in our workshop for magneto servicing Just to reinforce a point here of something very well done that you did in the how-to: when you're testing a mag like this, ALWAYS have the plug wires hooked up with a gap (or plugs) to ground so that energy has somewhere to go. If you havent already done so, undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. I would be interested to hear from people who either have seen this running or know of similar setups in forges. Housings can sometimes get misshapen, in which case try to rectify that. The other thing I have noticed is the spark will arc to ground when compression is on the plug if external arcingis the path of least resistance. instructions). It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs.The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil . To all you guys with Lucas magnetos with problems, get ready to see it fully functional for about $23 shipped, along with a little work in your garage. Due to the inevitable losses in the system, this oscillation decays fairly rapidly. I can never stress this enough to people who try to test out their mags. In the late 1890s, English engineer Frederick Richard Simms and German engineer Robert Bosch developed the first practical high-tension magneto. The likely culprits are: Set the timing of the ignition in accordance with the machines handbook. 0000000016 00000 n
Check that the advance/retard mechanism reliably rotates the cam back and forth. - there's a lot of stuff in our frequently read more deeply). This video details the work done to the magneto so far. It appears that magnetio does not have in impulse coupling which means the engine must turn over much faster to develop as hot a spark as if there was an impulse. Blue spark is great but if it can only jump .03" when external of a cylinder with no compression pressureswhen you add the compression and fuel mix it will fall on its face. Remove the pick-up(s) from the magneto taking care not to mislay the gasket(s). Check the state of the points surfaces. JVC 4VR-5436X 4 Channel Stereo Receiver Service Manual Original. This was examined earlier. Svensk that more owners can not only maintain their magnetos, load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. In that case, it it best to dismantle the magneto to retrieve it. If it was a typo then you can run it with the cap and rotor off by just holding your wire to the HT terminal and that would eliminate the cap land rotor from the equation. Pick-up brushes of the highest Ensure that you have the proper gasket fitted. Alnico, the material most often used to fabricate early magnets has a tendency to lose its induced magnetic field over time due to various causes. The voltage generated across magneto coils is quite high, in the order of 20,000 volt if no spark plugs are in place. If youre giving your magneto a thorough check over, we suggest you tackle jobs in the order shown. The gap will widen as the wire ends melt further apart and soon the adjacent turns will be affected so the coil will eventually fail. With BTH devices, if the moving point assembly fouls the eccentric pin, the pin will need to be adjusted. 0000001184 00000 n
Main-body Earth Brushes and Bearing Insulators: Some magnetos have an earth brush between the contact-breaker back-plate and the contact breaker housing. This Lucas KVF magneto was rebuilt 7,000 miles ago and failed at around 3,000 miles with loss of spark on one cylinder. Downloadable drawings, all for free, for Measure the resistance with the two probes of your multi-meter shorted together. A fair amount maintenance and troubleshooting of a magneto can be done with the magneto in situ and without any special tools or equipment other than a multimeter. Having removed the contact-breaker assembly from the magneto, disassemble it, noting where each part was. Check the cam surface. errors in the translations. There are several common faults with magnetos The Capacitor Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). Place a clean piece of strong paper between the points, and with the points closed pull the paper out. If you have an auto-ranging meter, the reading might jump about a bit on the way while it changes scales. trailer
On many Rolls Royce models there is a dual ignition system. If you can't get even 1/4", I would be worried it would not work under the stress of being in the combustion chamber. If there is a groove where a lubricating felt should be, but is missing, consider making and fitting a replacement. If the timing is not correct on both lobes, the reason could be that: the contact-breaker assembly is wobbly on the end of the armature; the cam or its housing were incorrectly machined (rare); with ring-cam magnetos, the armature and cam are not coaxial due to the outer race of the bearing at the contact-breaker end not being seated properly by its insulator in the cam housing. only for magnetos, but also classic motorcycle pages on how to do that. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the brass of the slip ring and the end of the armature shaft (armature earth). We are unfortunately not able to offer With Lucas devices, if it fouls the contact-breaker spring, the contact-breaker assembly will need to be removed and the effective length of the spring increased as necessary. In a modern installation, the magneto only has a single low tension winding which is connected to an external ignition coil which not only has a low tension winding, but also a secondary winding of many thousands of turns to deliver the high voltage required for the spark plug(s). If you do not obtain readings substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section, and if everything else you previously checked is still good, it indicates that the pick-up brush(es) is/are not making good electrical contact with the brass of the slip ring. i'm an asshole, you probably shouldn't listen to me. replace it with an EasyCap. When inserting the brushes; you may have to do. The family of Bijan Ghaisar, shot dead by two U.S. Park Police officers as he slowly drove his Jeep Grand Cherokee away from them in 2017, agreed to settle their lawsuit against the . wish to 'demystify and simplify' wherever we can, so 0000001569 00000 n
grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip To contact injunmort simply click on his name and the forum will display his e-mail address, Helge. i totally agree. For example: Check as best you can that the brush is actually making contact with the track on which it runs. magnetos. Put it on bike, timed, no spark. 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield. Also, with the points open, check that there is an open circuit between them; if fitted with a Brightspark EasyCap, it will take a little while for the resistance reading to climb off the scale. We would recommend having the transformer coil rewound as modern class F or H wires and insulations are superior to the ones used at the time it was originally made and would almost certainly give you another 40 years of good service. [6], The first car to use magneto ignition was the 1901 German Mercedes 35 hp racing car, followed by various cars produced by Benz, Mors, Turcat-Mery, and Nesseldorf. Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. To help magneto owners look after their magnetos Translations provided by the Google Translate service. (Japanese) making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; Espaol Then wash the points with petrol and dry them. You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. Thanks. 0000001320 00000 n
"Colonel fair is fair: if I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye can I go home too?". anglais, votre convenance. You can check for this by trying to start in a dark area with no lighting. In either case, the magneto needs a more complete overhaul. Initial installation does require the If it is an original capacitor then it will almost certainly fail because of its age and the materials and techniques that were used to construct them.
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